I read them. It only confirms that Steve Lukather is just not remembering what happened correctly and it also proves that he is unaware of the “clean-funky” syncopated overdubs that sound EXACTLY like Paul Jackson Jr. Marinelli is totally aware that there was a demo session for “Beat It” which Paul played on. This was the track that was edited to Eddie’s liking for the solo section which then required the re-cutting of the entire rhythm track at Sunset as Luke described. But let’s be clear here…Luke is probably wrong about Eddie recording the solo at his home. He did not have a completed studio in April of 1982 and even if Eddie got in a time machine and recorded it at home a year later when his studio was functional, he still couldn’t have physically played back the 24-track demo on the 16-track machine that was used to record ‘1984’ beginning in April of 1983.
Lukather has never mentioned the clean octave/syncopated overdubs on “Beat It”…not once. Not ever. He COULD have played those specific parts…but the fact that he has demonstrated no knowledge of those parts tells me that he doesn’t know about them…because even if Lukather did play those clean overdubs even he would have to acknowledge that those parts are 1000% in the unmistakeable style of Paul Jackson Jr. What Lukather can’t speak on is what happened to the “Beat It” track AFTER his involvement was over. He can’t speak on overdubs that might have been made after his work was complete and he can’t speak on the final mixing sessions. I think it’s pretty obvious that Luke is correct in saying that he recorded all the overdriven electric guitars on the final rhythm track exactly as he recalled, but because he never mentions the clean overdubs that seem likely to have been added to the track after his involvement was complete, I think it’s obvious that he’s just not aware of these parts.
He’s just obviously and provably wrong. If he refuses to acknowledge that the Musician’s Union Contract is an indication of factual events and he thinks it is just a made-up document, then he is calling out Edward who claimed over and over again that he did the session for free. Luke had a long-standing relationship with Q and we KNOW he got paid because he was one of the most in-demand session players of all time. But I don’t believe that Eddie was lying when he said he didn’t ask for or receive payment for the session to the best of his knowledge. I would imagine that Ed did get a small check from the Musician’s Union for a payment of Union scale for the session that he was not aware of. But beyond that, I think Eddie wasn’t lying about doing the season for free or close to free if his wife or accountant deposited the Union scale check and he wasn’t aware of it.
Do you think the Musician’s Union contract is fake or that the Musician’s Union made this document for some nefarious reason?
With all due respect to Steve Lukather, I must say that the evidence is not in the favor of Luke’s recollection. Just because someone is famous and has a long resume and is rightfully well respected for a stellar career in music, that does not mean that their memory is automatically correct on that basis alone.
Hi everyone! I’ve finished some transcriptions of a couple of Edward’s most famous solos recently and I thought I’d share them and some observations I made along the way that might interest some of you!
First, I completed my transcription of the famous “Beat It” solo. The solo is well known to be comped from at least two or possibly three takes and I have made some notations as to where some of the most obvious edits might have occurred. As far as I know, Donn was the person who edited the solo from Ed’s couple of takes and then presented the result to Bruce Swedien for final mixing later. I don’t know who was responsible for the cutting of the SMPTE code track that caused Jeff Porcaro and Lukather to have to recut the backing track and that whole chain of events, but my guess is that Donn would not have been the one to have made that mistake. Luke’s story about Eddie recording it at home in his own “studio” (which was nowhere near functioning at the time of the session on April 4, 1982) is just plain not true and I’m puzzled where he concocted that story from. The Musician’s Union contract proved that it all happened at Westlake Audio…sorry Luke!
To the best of my reckoning, this could likely have been recorded in exact half-step down tuning (no tuning offset, just straight and direct chromatic pitch) with the original Frankenstein guitar with the Kramer “Strathead” neck for the session date on April 4, 1982. Going by photos of the Frankenstein from the last gig before the break in the tour when Ed hung out in Shreveport with Val and her family and the first gig when the tour resumed, the Frankenstein would have looked like this IF it was used on the session.
There’s also a possibility that Ed used the recently completed “Kramer Ad Franky” which was used a few times in the States and exclusively in South America on the 1982 tours.
But I would guess that it would have been way more likely that Edward used the Frankenstein for this session.
The date of April 4, 1982 was confirmed after some research when I contacted Anthony Marinelli through his excellent ‘Stories In the Room’ podcast. Anthony was able to dig up the Musician’s Union contract for the session and he shared it here.
My pal Jeff Goebel also interviewed Greg Leon for his YouTube podcast Final Resonance TV. He was a gentleman who was involved with the rental of his 1971 100w Marshall Super Bass head from Studio Instrument Rentals that was used on the session. His story was confirmed by Andy Brauer of S.I.R. shortly after this interview. https://youtu.be/y8ck4CHc8K0
There are a lot of odd stories surrounding the “Beat It” session, but regardless…the resulting solo was on one of the biggest selling #1 singles on what is still the biggest selling album of all time, so it is at the very least something that is historically significant and worthy of study.
There are obviously many “stock” Eddie licks in the solo, but for some reason most people still have a hard time with understanding the “stretch lick” that occurred in bars 6 and 7 of my transcription. This is simply one picked note, an Upstroke, on the high E with the rest of the notes in the pattern on the B and G strings being sounded with “hammer-ons from nowhere” and standard pull-offs. This pattern is in “Eruption”, “Somebody Get Me a Doctor”, the beginning of the second solo in “I’m the One” and several other places using open strings. The pattern is the same in the higher register in “Beat It” and “Girl Gone Bad” among other places. I did a specific lesson video on these licks because it is an element of Eddie’s playing that is so often misunderstood, even by well known guitar players with resumes a mile long.
I put some very specific details in all my transcriptions which always includes which of the left hand fingers to use on which notes and the exact “Down” or “Up” strokes of the right hand (or obviously vice-versa for you lefties out there). Also of note are the places where I have notated where the likely tape edits occurred. I’ve tried to come up with ways to physically play some of these sounds that didn’t happen in real time as we hear it in the final recording. For these parts you really have to get a little creative with trying to capture the spirit of the intended timing and phrasing of something that is strictly physically playable due to these tape edits. The same is so for my transcription of the “Jump” solo which features these types of edits as well.
What you are failing to recognize is that Beat It was recorded more than once. The contracts and session dates that Anthony Marinelli is talking about are not the dates of the sessions of the recording that made the album (per Luke). This “confusion” has allowed (possibly forgivably) guys like Anthony to make hay for decades….
trust Luke - I do (and he’s called Anthony Marinelli out on his bullshit and got him to back down
I’m not sure where you get that I “failed to recognize” that “Beat It” was recorded more than once. I’m well aware of the demo and the re-recording of the track after Edward’s solo was recorded that Luke mentions. Luke can only speak to the session at Sunset Sound in which he, Jeff Porcaro and an engineer re-recorded the backing tracks. He had no involvement in “Beat It” before or after that. I don’t trust Luke’s recollections of Eddie’s solo session at all because he didn’t have any involvement in “Beat It” until after Eddie’s session was complete. Luke was not there when Eddie recorded the solo by his own admission. He has said so many contradictory things related to this session and other things-which is understandable given the years and the high times in those days. There was a demo which was made before Ed came into the picture obviously, but Luke wasn’t involved in that or any other demo of the song that might have existed before Eddie was involved. The stated time for the session from the Musician’s Union contract fits with the narrow window of time that Eddie had between the two legs of the 1982 tour. Luke’s claim that Eddie recorded the solo at home and that he never set foot in Westlake is provably false. Most importantly, Ed did not have a working studio at home anywhere near the time of the session. The home studio was not complete and capable of recording and playback of the demo tape-it never was because 5150 had a 16-track machine incapable of recording and playback on the 24-track tape that ‘Thriller’ was recorded on including the demos. Luke is just plain wrong about Eddie doing all the work on “Beat It” at home. It just never happened that way.
What exactly do you mean about Luke having “called Anthony Marinelli out on his bullshit and got him to back down”?! I’m not being contradictory, I really want to know what evidence you have. I’m a fan of Luke, there’s no question about that. But I trust the evidence. If Luke’s recollections matched any evidence I would trust his recollections, but his recollections don’t match any evidence or logic, so I don’t trust his recollections.
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The irony of getting emails from here telling us what we missed...lol
https://www.thetapesarchive.com/van-halen/building-5150-studio-article/
This is fun reading for anyone who hasn't had the pleasure.
is there an episode for A Different Kind of Truth???
My guess is late March of 2024...
Luke calls him out on this thread on Anthony’s own Instagram…
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CpTEJVwLyt2/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
…read the comments
I read them. It only confirms that Steve Lukather is just not remembering what happened correctly and it also proves that he is unaware of the “clean-funky” syncopated overdubs that sound EXACTLY like Paul Jackson Jr. Marinelli is totally aware that there was a demo session for “Beat It” which Paul played on. This was the track that was edited to Eddie’s liking for the solo section which then required the re-cutting of the entire rhythm track at Sunset as Luke described. But let’s be clear here…Luke is probably wrong about Eddie recording the solo at his home. He did not have a completed studio in April of 1982 and even if Eddie got in a time machine and recorded it at home a year later when his studio was functional, he still couldn’t have physically played back the 24-track demo on the 16-track machine that was used to record ‘1984’ beginning in April of 1983.
Lukather has never mentioned the clean octave/syncopated overdubs on “Beat It”…not once. Not ever. He COULD have played those specific parts…but the fact that he has demonstrated no knowledge of those parts tells me that he doesn’t know about them…because even if Lukather did play those clean overdubs even he would have to acknowledge that those parts are 1000% in the unmistakeable style of Paul Jackson Jr. What Lukather can’t speak on is what happened to the “Beat It” track AFTER his involvement was over. He can’t speak on overdubs that might have been made after his work was complete and he can’t speak on the final mixing sessions. I think it’s pretty obvious that Luke is correct in saying that he recorded all the overdriven electric guitars on the final rhythm track exactly as he recalled, but because he never mentions the clean overdubs that seem likely to have been added to the track after his involvement was complete, I think it’s obvious that he’s just not aware of these parts.
He’s just obviously and provably wrong. If he refuses to acknowledge that the Musician’s Union Contract is an indication of factual events and he thinks it is just a made-up document, then he is calling out Edward who claimed over and over again that he did the session for free. Luke had a long-standing relationship with Q and we KNOW he got paid because he was one of the most in-demand session players of all time. But I don’t believe that Eddie was lying when he said he didn’t ask for or receive payment for the session to the best of his knowledge. I would imagine that Ed did get a small check from the Musician’s Union for a payment of Union scale for the session that he was not aware of. But beyond that, I think Eddie wasn’t lying about doing the season for free or close to free if his wife or accountant deposited the Union scale check and he wasn’t aware of it.
Do you think the Musician’s Union contract is fake or that the Musician’s Union made this document for some nefarious reason?
With all due respect to Steve Lukather, I must say that the evidence is not in the favor of Luke’s recollection. Just because someone is famous and has a long resume and is rightfully well respected for a stellar career in music, that does not mean that their memory is automatically correct on that basis alone.
Hi everyone! I’ve finished some transcriptions of a couple of Edward’s most famous solos recently and I thought I’d share them and some observations I made along the way that might interest some of you!
First, I completed my transcription of the famous “Beat It” solo. The solo is well known to be comped from at least two or possibly three takes and I have made some notations as to where some of the most obvious edits might have occurred. As far as I know, Donn was the person who edited the solo from Ed’s couple of takes and then presented the result to Bruce Swedien for final mixing later. I don’t know who was responsible for the cutting of the SMPTE code track that caused Jeff Porcaro and Lukather to have to recut the backing track and that whole chain of events, but my guess is that Donn would not have been the one to have made that mistake. Luke’s story about Eddie recording it at home in his own “studio” (which was nowhere near functioning at the time of the session on April 4, 1982) is just plain not true and I’m puzzled where he concocted that story from. The Musician’s Union contract proved that it all happened at Westlake Audio…sorry Luke!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p0s3BpY8tEp2jfzZdNb4etpYU4GgMlmu/view?usp=drivesdk
To the best of my reckoning, this could likely have been recorded in exact half-step down tuning (no tuning offset, just straight and direct chromatic pitch) with the original Frankenstein guitar with the Kramer “Strathead” neck for the session date on April 4, 1982. Going by photos of the Frankenstein from the last gig before the break in the tour when Ed hung out in Shreveport with Val and her family and the first gig when the tour resumed, the Frankenstein would have looked like this IF it was used on the session.
There’s also a possibility that Ed used the recently completed “Kramer Ad Franky” which was used a few times in the States and exclusively in South America on the 1982 tours.
But I would guess that it would have been way more likely that Edward used the Frankenstein for this session.
The date of April 4, 1982 was confirmed after some research when I contacted Anthony Marinelli through his excellent ‘Stories In the Room’ podcast. Anthony was able to dig up the Musician’s Union contract for the session and he shared it here.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Avb8EPGuUj4?feature=share
My pal Jeff Goebel also interviewed Greg Leon for his YouTube podcast Final Resonance TV. He was a gentleman who was involved with the rental of his 1971 100w Marshall Super Bass head from Studio Instrument Rentals that was used on the session. His story was confirmed by Andy Brauer of S.I.R. shortly after this interview. https://youtu.be/y8ck4CHc8K0
There are a lot of odd stories surrounding the “Beat It” session, but regardless…the resulting solo was on one of the biggest selling #1 singles on what is still the biggest selling album of all time, so it is at the very least something that is historically significant and worthy of study.
There are obviously many “stock” Eddie licks in the solo, but for some reason most people still have a hard time with understanding the “stretch lick” that occurred in bars 6 and 7 of my transcription. This is simply one picked note, an Upstroke, on the high E with the rest of the notes in the pattern on the B and G strings being sounded with “hammer-ons from nowhere” and standard pull-offs. This pattern is in “Eruption”, “Somebody Get Me a Doctor”, the beginning of the second solo in “I’m the One” and several other places using open strings. The pattern is the same in the higher register in “Beat It” and “Girl Gone Bad” among other places. I did a specific lesson video on these licks because it is an element of Eddie’s playing that is so often misunderstood, even by well known guitar players with resumes a mile long.
https://youtu.be/lIL27p_MAfA
I put some very specific details in all my transcriptions which always includes which of the left hand fingers to use on which notes and the exact “Down” or “Up” strokes of the right hand (or obviously vice-versa for you lefties out there). Also of note are the places where I have notated where the likely tape edits occurred. I’ve tried to come up with ways to physically play some of these sounds that didn’t happen in real time as we hear it in the final recording. For these parts you really have to get a little creative with trying to capture the spirit of the intended timing and phrasing of something that is strictly physically playable due to these tape edits. The same is so for my transcription of the “Jump” solo which features these types of edits as well.
What you are failing to recognize is that Beat It was recorded more than once. The contracts and session dates that Anthony Marinelli is talking about are not the dates of the sessions of the recording that made the album (per Luke). This “confusion” has allowed (possibly forgivably) guys like Anthony to make hay for decades….
trust Luke - I do (and he’s called Anthony Marinelli out on his bullshit and got him to back down
I’m not sure where you get that I “failed to recognize” that “Beat It” was recorded more than once. I’m well aware of the demo and the re-recording of the track after Edward’s solo was recorded that Luke mentions. Luke can only speak to the session at Sunset Sound in which he, Jeff Porcaro and an engineer re-recorded the backing tracks. He had no involvement in “Beat It” before or after that. I don’t trust Luke’s recollections of Eddie’s solo session at all because he didn’t have any involvement in “Beat It” until after Eddie’s session was complete. Luke was not there when Eddie recorded the solo by his own admission. He has said so many contradictory things related to this session and other things-which is understandable given the years and the high times in those days. There was a demo which was made before Ed came into the picture obviously, but Luke wasn’t involved in that or any other demo of the song that might have existed before Eddie was involved. The stated time for the session from the Musician’s Union contract fits with the narrow window of time that Eddie had between the two legs of the 1982 tour. Luke’s claim that Eddie recorded the solo at home and that he never set foot in Westlake is provably false. Most importantly, Ed did not have a working studio at home anywhere near the time of the session. The home studio was not complete and capable of recording and playback of the demo tape-it never was because 5150 had a 16-track machine incapable of recording and playback on the 24-track tape that ‘Thriller’ was recorded on including the demos. Luke is just plain wrong about Eddie doing all the work on “Beat It” at home. It just never happened that way.
What exactly do you mean about Luke having “called Anthony Marinelli out on his bullshit and got him to back down”?! I’m not being contradictory, I really want to know what evidence you have. I’m a fan of Luke, there’s no question about that. But I trust the evidence. If Luke’s recollections matched any evidence I would trust his recollections, but his recollections don’t match any evidence or logic, so I don’t trust his recollections.
I responded above.